Cars That Matter Ep 009 – Andy Cohen

 

Announcer: From Curtco Media.

 

Robert Ross: Hello, friends and fellow car lovers. Some time ago, when we were still figuring out what this show would be. We invited Andy Cohen to be one of our first guests. Due to these episodes sometimes being released out of chronological order, his episode was delayed, and I'm very sad to say that in the time since this recording, Andy passed away. But we hear at Cars that Matter feel this episode serves as a fitting tribute to Andy and his deep passion and joy for the automobile. We want to share this episode with listeners as he tells us how cars literally shaped his life. It's a joy I think we can all relate to. Drive on, Andy.

 

Announcer: This is Cars that Matter.

 

Bill Curtis: I'm Bill Curtis.

 

Robert Ross: And I'm Robert Ross,.

 

Bill Curtis: And this is Cars that Matter.

 

Robert Ross: Part of the Cars that Matter's equation has more to do with the people that own them and drive them and love them than it does about the cars themselves. That's where my guest, Andy Cohen, is really just exactly the kind of person we want to talk to and get a sense of of how cars that matter have affected him and how in many ways he's been one of the arbiters of taste that has helped to determine which cars do matter. Andy is president of Beverly Hills Motoring Accessories, a company that began in 1976. Back at a time when, well, cars were not quite the uniform transportation pods that they are today. So we want to talk to Andy about a lot of those things. Andy, welcome to the show. And we'll look forward to learning a little bit about your cars that matter.

 

Andy Cohen: Sir, thank you very much. I was, at a young age, 20 years old, living in New York, Long Island. To be interested in cars at that time was very looked down upon.

 

Bill Curtis: What part of Long Island did you grow up on?

 

Andy Cohen: Great Neck.

 

Bill Curtis: And what year are you talking?

 

Andy Cohen: Let's see, I graduated high school in 64.

 

Bill Curtis: So in 64, you think that people look down on someone who is a car aficionado.

 

Andy Cohen: In New York.

 

Bill Curtis: Oh, boy. You know,  over at Roosevelt Raceway and\ near Roosevelt Field, where they had all those great straightaways and we could see what our cars could really do. And someone had to give somebody, you know, some cute girl the pink slip of our car before we showed off the new engine we had put into a car that would otherwise have gone very slowly and then surprised everybody with the power behind our hot rod.

 

Andy Cohen: Yes,.

 

Bill Curtis: I would bet that you rule the roost  back then.

 

Andy Cohen: Well, I did what I could.

 

Robert Ross: Everybody remembers their first car, the ones they saved up for, even built from scratch.For Andy, he talked his father into buying a 64 Pontiac Tempest with 326 cubic inch V8 and a three speed stick. But then

 

Andy Cohen: Six months later, it was the middle of the year and they came out with the GTO. And I'm thinking, God, why didn't they have that when I got my dad to buy this car. So I have this scheme -went away for the weekend with my mother to Florida. And I said to me and my friends, we're gonna make this Tempest into a GTO. So I went to a wrecking yard and I bought a three eighty nine cubic inch motor, cause that's what they were from a Grand Prix. And I proceeded to concoct this story that I was riding on Northern Boulevard. I hit a rock, broke the oil pan.

 

Bill Curtis: Damn it if the engine didn't fall out.

 

Andy Cohen: Yeah. Yes. And so I had the scheme. I went and got the motor from the wrecking yard, went to put it in. It was completely different than the GTO engine. And it took four months to get everything all done.  I had to buy a new hood, had to make custom made headers. I mean, everything was different. My dad was taking a bus and very mad at me. I just said New York wasn't a place for me. I didn't like the cold. I didn't like the weather. I didn't like crowds. I didn't like anything. So I said, Southern California is it.

 

Bill Curtis: So  when did you move out here?

 

Andy Cohen: I moved out here in '67. I moved here in 1967. I didn't, like I said, I didn't know anyone. I didn't even know which way to go. So I got off the plane, got on Century Boulevard, went to the 405 throughway and said, will we go north or south. I don't know 'cause I didn't know anyone.  I  turn left. and went north. I got to the top of Sepulveda Pass going down into to the San Fernando Valley. It was September. It got 30 degrees hotter as I went down into the valley. I loved it because the hotter, the better. So I went down the hill, got off on Ventura Boulevard, saw a Holiday Inn and kind of made that my center for a few years.

 

Robert Ross: What a great story. I don't even know if that's repeatable these days.

 

Bill Curtis: And, Robert, he moved out here in 67.

 

Robert Ross: That's that's right at the, man that's when you wanted to be in the car scene. So it begs the question, Andy, what was your first car when you got out here?

 

Andy Cohen: My first car that I built, actually was a 1940 Ford Woody that already had a 327 engine in it. And I actually have restored it three times. I still have it. It's black and has Corvette Motor, independent suspension, drives, drives like my Mazerati.

 

Robert Ross: Fantastic.

 

Andy Cohen: So I got the combination, combination of all those things. And I actually bought my first Ferrari in 1978. It was a 308. One of my friends who I bought it from was a Ferrari dealer in New Mexico. APrince nd he said, Andy, are you interested in buying a Daytona Spider? I said, sure. Tell me about it. This was in 1978. It was owned by a Prince Turki, who I think is still around. His predecessor's are, in Newport Beach. It was a red Daytona Spider.

 

Robert Ross: A real one , not one of those fake street jobs.

 

Andy Cohen: It's a real one. In fact, talking about like before the Internet. The only way I could find out if was a real Daytona Spider was to send a telex to the Ferrari factory, and then three years later, I found out that that car was the first Daytona Spyder made.

 

Robert Ross: What a fantastic car. That's one of the cars of everybody's dreams. I mean, the Daytona Spider is an iconic thing and boy, has certainly created a sensation such that there were so many saws all taken to the roofs of perfectly good Daytona coupes that, you know, they .

 

Andy Cohen: They ruined a lot of Daytona coupes.

 

Robert Ross: They sure did.

 

Andy Cohen: And there are only 122 Daytona Spiders for all years. And it's still one of the most sought after valuable cars. Of course, I sold it a long time ago.

 

Robert Ross: Well, those are the stories. That'll be another show. Cars that matter that we wish we still had. But I think that's, that's the part and parcel of the process, too, you know, as we're just custodians of these things. And I think the real, the real enjoyment is, is being able to kind of cycle through an evolution of cars in our stable. Unless you are one of these guys that has the resources, in the end, the kind of mental wherewithal to encompass a garage full of hundreds of cars. It's  too much of a good thing. And I think being able to cherish and prize that Daytona Spider and a couple of other special personal examples. That's what car ownership is really all about.

 

Bill Curtis: What was your first special car, Robert?

 

Robert Ross: Oh, gosh. My first special car was the first one that I could afford. That was quite a triumph in and of itself. Not a Triumph. literally, it was actually a BMW 1600 and back.

 

Bill Curtis: Wow. Nice start.

 

Robert Ross: Well, nobody knew what those things were. They were just little tin shitboxes back in the early '70s, but they were quite a handful for a guy learning the whole essence of vehicle dynamics, handling dynamics. What does it take to actually make a car do certain things?

 

Bill Curtis: Those were manual back then.

 

Robert Ross: They were all manual. And, you know, you really had to work hard to to make that thing go fast. You know, the old saying, you know, you got to have more fun making a slow car go fast than a fast car go slow. And it certainly holds true with something like that little fourbinger BMW.

 

Bill Curtis: Would you want that car again today?

 

Robert Ross: You know, I actually tried to find it. Bill, I'm sorry I sold the damn thing. But, you know, when you're a college student and you're kind of starving, you have to do what you have to do. Actually, I had different priorities. I sold it to buy a stereo. I remember the guy that came to buy it. I was trying to sell it for twelve hundred dollars, exactly what I paid about maybe a year before. So this guy comes to my mother's house where I'm staying over the summer. And he was kind of a shifty looking character. I'm not sure where he was from. If I had to guess, I'd say someplace like Transylvania. And after talking a little bit of negotiation, he says, I'll give you six hundred dollars and my monkey. I said, oh, boy, I love monkeys and stuff, but I'm in college and I got a roommate and I'd rather have the twelve hundred bucks. I figure it was like an organ grinder monkey or something like that. But needless to say, we did a cash transaction and the BMW went away. I've been looking for it ever since.

 

Bill Curtis: And is the monkey still around, you still feeding it?

 

Robert Ross: UQM 363. If anybody ever sees a black California plate out there with those numbers, please let me know.

 

Bill Curtis: I, my first car was a 1964 Buick Wildcat convertible with air conditioning 445 four barrel. This thing was about as long as your. city block.

 

Robert Ross: Long Island?

 

Bill Curtis: Yeah. And looked like it couldn't get out of its own way. And we used to fit, Oh I don't know, Nine people in the car. This car looked like maybe it could top out around forty, forty four miles an hour. And we used to take this to Roosevelt Raceway and there was a long straightaway there, not too far from where Charles Lindbergh took off. And this car could not be beat.  You know what a 445 four barrel can do. You could probably make a Mack truck go at about 100 miles an hour.

 

Robert Ross: You get it going. It's great. The problem is stopping it. But that's a whole different set of issues.

 

Bill Curtis: Well, that was sometimes the best thing was not to stop because you actually didn't want to face the person you had you had beaten, because not only would they not give you their car, but they would not let you leave on two legs. But that's, that's Long Island for you. But, boy, if I could find that car again. That's why I brought it up, Robert. There was so much personality to those cars. There was so much soul to it. It really developed a kind of an emotion that's rare today in the kind of cars you can buy new.

 

Andy Cohen: Yes. I'm actually the first new car that I bought when I got it in 68 was I ordered a 68 Oldsmobile 442 convertible, all black. And that was was that was fun.

 

Robert Ross: That was a great car.

 

Andy Cohen: And those were cruising Van Nuys Boulevard days. Like you said, girls, everyone's cruising and talking and having a good time. Beach Boys songs, I mean,  that helped bring me here, too. It was, it was a California dream for me, which still exists by the way..

 

Robert Ross: You've been here for for your whole California.

 

Andy Cohen: No 24 years.

 

Robert Ross: 24 years.

 

Andy Cohen: The thing I regret is not moving here sooner.

 

Robert Ross: Andy has a long history of hosting car shows from the Rodeo Drive, Concord to the Malibu Cars and Coffee. But a success in hosting such events became a double edged sword. With increased popularity came increased attendance until finally.

 

Andy Cohen: It got too crowded.

 

Bill Curtis: Do you actually filter the cars that get to show at your event?

 

Andy Cohen: At Trancas you couldn't because there's three entrances, people come in. Every local cars and coffee in southern California has been shut down after a while. Supercar Sunday.

 

Robert Ross: Sure, that that was a great event. Dustin used to bring great cars there, but then all of a sudden it starts attracting everything else and pretty soon it's like flies on a dead cow. You can't , can't swat 'em off fast enough.

 

Andy Cohen: And the merchants get upset because you're taking their parking.

 

Robert Ross: Nobody's spending any money. They're just there to ogle and whatnot.

 

Andy Cohen: And so I found a place in Malibu, unnamed. I'm not going to name it. It's by the beach and I do it once a month and don't even try to find it. But, Bill, I'll tell you later where it is.

 

Bill Curtis: So the most successful event you could throw would be one where nobody came.

 

Andy Cohen: Yes.

 

Robert Ross:  Exactly. Exactly But yes, but guess what? Who is going to be there? The folks that are going to be there, some people with some really interesting cars. That kind of gets back to my original point that it's not just about cars that matter, but the people that go with the cars, because really without being able to share them with other people, like minds, enthusiasts, people who have something to talk about. It would be a very solitary hobby indeed.

 

Bill Curtis: So if you don't mind for a minute, we're gonna take a quick break and for our listeners. If if you take a breath, inhale really hard.I promise we'll be back before you have to exhale.

 

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Bill Curtis: Ok. You can exhale. We're back.

 

Robert Ross: Well, we are back. And I'm basically barely catching my breath because I'm thinking about all these great cars at Andy's owned and talk about modest. You'd never even know it. You've owned all these great cars. Is there something on the radar? Is there something you'd still like to get your hands on?

 

Andy Cohen: I think one of two cars. My next car is either going to be a '97 Porsche Twin Turbo. Any of the air-cooled Porsches are great cars. to buy because from '99 they went to the water cooled cars.

 

Robert Ross: Sure.

 

Andy Cohen: And they're not enthusiast cars.

 

Robert Ross: Absolutely true.

 

Andy Cohen: Porsche was built from the 356 air cooled theme. So I think if someone buys a '95,'96 , any year,.

 

Robert Ross: Any of the last 993s,  fantastic.

 

Andy Cohen: Right. So I just got for a client last week, a '97 black/white twin turbo. I fell in love. So that's, that's on my list. And then to me, the ultimate modern car of all ti`me is the Carrera GT. I just think that's the number one coolest thing. It's a V10. It's an F1 engine. Sounds great. Looks great. I think it's a drop dead gorgeous. And I think that's a car that's going to really go up in value.

 

Robert Ross: And by the way, it's stick shift and it's all analog. No funny business there. This car is actually a car that a car person who actually grew up during a gearbox can actually understand.

 

Andy Cohen: I think that's a really exciting car to drive. And I think that we're seeing a little bit of kickback to this hybrid stuff, even in these cars. At the same time, Porsche came out with a 918 a few years ago.

 

Robert Ross: Right.

 

Andy Cohen: McClaren came out with a P1.

 

Robert Ross: Yep. And the LaFerrari.

 

Andy Cohen: And LaFerrari came out. So now what I'm seeing is a few years later, the technology was not perfected. They made those cars. So now you're seeing these cars with 

 

Robert Ross: Software.

 

Andy Cohen: Software that, first of all, a guy that's had all these cars really doesn't want to have to plug his car in like a Prius or a Tesla, really not. So even with these cars, plugged in the batteries go bad. The battery systems are $100,000-$200,000. So now I'm seeing a backlash on these cars. McLaren P1 came out they're a million dollars selling up to 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5. Now they're down to a million dollars because of that. And the same thing happening to the 918s.  People thinking ahead what's going to happen in 20 years? The car companies, because they wanted to be green, came out with this new technology that wasn't perfected.

 

Robert Ross: Sure,

 

Bill Curtis: What's the year of the Carrera that you're looking for?

 

Andy Cohen: Carerra GT is 2005. They made Carrera GTs in  2004 and 2005.

 

Bill Curtis: So in '05 you still had to wear your glasses to find the controls and switches that looked more like they bought them at RadioShack than anything else.

 

Robert Ross: Absolutely. That was a great car. I went on the launch of that car. It was right outside of Berlin back in 2004 with Porsche. And they flew us over there and we went on a secret testing ground that used to be a part of the East German government. It was an airstrip. It was so secret that there was no G.P.S. tracking. And we had an opportunity to take that thing out and do some flat runs. And I was a passenger of Walter Roehrl, who was arguably Porsche's greatest rally driver in history. And that guy drove with the deftness and and the skill of a of a school bus driver. He couldn't get flummoxed by a thing. We had that car up well over 20 miles an hour and then took it on the circuit and he made it dance in the hands of, you know, most folks it's dare I say, a handful, but it's an incredibly capable car, Andy, and required a little bit of a feathering of the clutch because it's a very finicky and light flywheel, as you know. That's why it's so problematic when it gets into the wrong hands, but I think in the scheme of things that Carrera GT is probably the most exciting car that Porsche made in the 21st century. Without question, ever. Most exciting car they've made.

 

Andy Cohen: Yeah. So again, there's all these cars that are super, that are unique, that are fun to drive. And listen, if you get to buy a collector car, why not buy something that's also a good investment?

 

Robert Ross: Absolutely. And a Porsche supports their cars. You know, in terms of their preserving and understanding and appreciating their heritage, I think more than a lot of companies, they support the history, as much as the future. You know, you talk about Cars that Matter and it's really in many ways as much about the sound and the feeling as it is about the look and the provenance. A V12 engine is special. And of course now we've got V10s, and the venerable V8. In fact trt he V8 you've got in your Woody, I mean that small block Chevy has sort of been the building block of car fantasy's from the very beginning.

 

That sound. I just think the sound.

 

Bill Curtis: Well, is a car transportation or something else.

 

Andy Cohen: Car is transportation for most people. Ok. You're right. It is transportation. And they just go to A to B and they don't care. But where you have talked about for all these years and got people excited about is something that was more than transportation. So whatever the percentage of people that are happy with their Toyota and  Mazda and just normal cars to get them from point A to point B, that's a majority. We're the minority. I don't know how big the minority is, but we're the minority.

 

Bill Curtis: So just for a second, for the people who haven't experienced what a car really is. Which can be a reflection of your own personality, a little bit of soul to it and experience that actually makes the getting there more important than being there. Tell us the experience you have when driving a really special car.

 

Andy Cohen: It's interesting. Someone told me once people buy cars for how they look at it.

 

Bill Curtis: Why does it feel better when you're in a 30 mile an hour zone, but you're in a supercar that can do 200 miles an hour? What is it that makes that feel special?

 

Andy Cohen: Just the ability that you can do it. We do live in Southern California and luckily there are a lot of places here that you can do that.

 

Bill Curtis: But of course you would never consider such a thing.

 

Andy Cohen: So, no, no, no. I would never think about it.

 

Robert Ross: And, you know, of course, it's not even just the zero to 60. All the statistics, the measurements become irrelevant because ultimately what happens is it becomes an emotional relationship that you've forged with these cars. It becomes a thing, an object that elicits emotions that aren't quantifiable necessarily, it is certainly not justifiable. There's no way to say that, you know,  to argue rationally that one car is better than the next because you like the way that the fender line moves or the way the, you know, the way the seat grabs you or the fit and finish of a particular piece of trim. These are things that become extremely personal relationships in the same way that you might prefer thus and such a brand of a suit and maybe, maybe even encapsulates a period of time. And that's why collector cars are fascinating because they take us back in time. You look at a, I don't care what it is, you look at a '66 Mustang Fastback, you look at a GTO, that Andy was talking about or that Daytona Spider, the Ferrari, all of these things take us back to a point in time that resonates in a way that no new car possibly can. Of course, the good news is that new cars eventually become old cars. And boy, it's funny how that happens fast. I look back on cars that I remember buying new and I realize now my God, that thing's twenty years old. Boy,wasn't it something then? And guess what? It's even more of something now.

 

Andy Cohen: One of my most favorite cars of all time was a 275 GTB/4 Ferrari, because I think it just so, so .

 

Oh boy Nothing better.

 

Right.

 

So it just looks so right.

 

Doesn't need a Ferrari angle.

 

It's brutal. And yet it's elegant. It's refined. It's like a thug in a tuxedo. I mean, it just it has everything. It's almost bursting at the seams the way those fender lines kind of bulge and the gills on the side, those covered headlights that ducktail in the back, kind of arrogance sticking up with that spoiler.  What an amazing car.

 

Andy Cohen: Right. So I did see one of those and it was dark blue with, It was dark blue with tan with maybe 20 something thousand original miles.

 

Robert Ross: Good heavens.

 

Andy Cohen: So it ended up being a friend of mine and I ended up buying.

 

Robert Ross: And you bought that car.  Oh,Andy you're my hero.

 

Andy Cohen: So that was that was amazing. And that's when I got completely engrossed in the Ferrari culture. This was like this was like in the early 90s when they weren't quite that expensive.

 

Robert Ross: They were marginally affordable.

 

Andy Cohen: Marginally affordable. So then in 1990, I walked into Hollywood Sports Cars, which was the Ferrari dealer,.

 

Robert Ross: Still in  business then. And they were the ones.

 

Andy Cohen: They were the dealer since 1960. They were the oldest Ferrari dealer, actually, in the country. And I went in there and they had a show wheelbase, California Spider, and that was owned by James Coburn, the actor that he bought almost new. So at the time, this is 1990, I said, well, this is the most gorgeous car I've ever seen in my life. I bought the car.

 

Bill Curtis: Did you get a deal?

 

Andy Cohen: It was $200,000 then which was  a lot of money then and.

 

Robert Ross: A lot of money then. But we won't even ask how much they're worth. Now, I know they made 50 of the long wheel bases. How many the short wheelbases did they make, about the same?

 

Andy Cohen: Yeah. 50. And this was kind of a little special because it was James Carver, a Hollywood legend, not Steve McQueen, but still a pretty famous guy. And the reason he sold it is because he's had arthritis and he couldn't shift it.

 

Robert Ross: God bless him.

 

Andy Cohen: God bless him. So I took the car.  It needed to be restored, but it was drivable, was fine. So I had a guy that detailed my cars forever. He detailed, he waxeds, he cleaned. He said, Andy. I want to restore this car for you. And I said, Jeff, you never restored a car before. Why would I let you do it? I know this guy to do the engine. I know this guy to do paint. I know this guy do that. So talk me into it. So he did it. It took a year to do it. And I enter Pebble Beach in 1992. And a week before he called me up, he said, Andy, I'm not going to Pebble Beach and I'm never talking to you again. And I said, why? He said, doing this project for a year. It ruined my life. So I'm never talking to you again. So I said, well, I paid you to do the work, right? He said, Yeah, no, it's not you, it's me. Made me crazy. I'm done.

 

Bill Curtis: That's what you used to say to all your girlfriends, right. It's not you, it's me.

 

Andy Cohen: That's right. That's right. So I went to Pebble Beach in 1992 and he wasn't there to help me do it. But it was the most thrilling, thrilling, thrilling, actually, except for my three kids being born. The most amazing experience of my life was showing a car and I actually won a prize.

 

Robert Ross: Boy, few experiences beat the thrill of winning a car show award, especially at the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance. But achieving recognition as serious as that got me thinking about where Andy's California journey really began.

 

Robert Ross: Well, Andy, you're killing me now with curiosity. What happened to the Cali Spider?

 

Andy Cohen: The Cali Spider? I sold it. OK, so I had, I paid $200,000 for it, .

 

Robert Ross: That was a lot of dough back then,.

 

Andy Cohen: Put one hundred thousand in it. Three hundred thousand and few years later someone came and offered me a million eight. So I wasn't a rich guy. Six times, six times what I had in it.

 

Robert Ross: Nobody would have guessed. And now 15 million dollar cars. I mean, who'd have thunk?

 

Andy Cohen: Right. So and so then the next thing that happened is I sold it to very well-known collector named Bruce Lussman in Denver, Colorado, and he had it four or five years and he sold it to RM Auctions for their factory auction. First one in 2008.

 

Robert Ross: Oh a Maranello.

 

Andy Cohen: Yeah, in 2008.

 

Robert Ross: I remember that.

 

Andy Cohen: So there was a guy there named Chris Evans who was like the Howard Stern of the UK, a radio guy like that.

 

Robert Ross: That's right.

 

Andy Cohen: And he got offered to buy the car for six million dollars because by then I didn't own it any more. He had sold it to RM Auctions. So he to RM Auctions, No, I'm not interested in buying it. He went to the auction, had a lot of drinks,and bought it for eleven million dollars.

 

Robert Ross: That same car sale. Good heavens. So he paid double for the car he passed on earlier.

 

Bill Curtis: What? I'm sorry. What year had you invested the three hundred thousand?

 

Andy Cohen: Nineteen ninety two.

 

Bill Curtis: And what year did it go for. 11 million.

 

Andy Cohen: 2008. So now the same car is for sale for 20 million dollars. Crazy.

 

Bill Curtis: So you did well and screwed the pooch all at the same time.

 

Andy Cohen: Yeah.

 

Robert Ross: Well you know they say I guess. Yeah. You know the part about pigs getting slaughtered, but it would've been nice to maybe hold on a little bit. But who knew. Who knew any of these cars would be anything but old used cars.

 

Andy Cohen: No regrets.

 

Robert Ross: And that's exactly true. And I think that's part of the magic.

 

Bill Curtis: I don't know, I got a few regrets when it comes to cars. Robert, you know, I sold a few cars before it was appropriate.

 

Robert Ross: You know, I know you absolutely have to and the bigger regrets are the ones you didn't buy when you had a chance. I think we've all got those stories. But I think the great thing about being old enough to remember these cars when they were, if not young, we'll say younger, is the fact that they were sort of, they were accessible. You could actually acquire them. They were they were not thick on the ground, but there were enough of them. There was enough critical mass that you could actually bring these things into your life. You can enjoy thme, you could sell them, make some money and move on to something else. Now, it's more of a speculators game, but I think thankfully there are still a lot of enthusiasts out there with substantial resources and even greater passion to kind of keep that, I think, alive.

 

Andy Cohen: At any level now there are cars you could buy that you could drive, enjoy and they will appreciate.

 

Robert Ross: Well, that that leads to the obvious question then. I mean, I know we don't have a crystal ball in the middle of this podcast studio. I kind of wish we did. So I'd like to see some things in there. But one of the questions I always like to ask people who are kind of in the know like you, Andy, what's on the horizon? I mean, are there some cars that are poised to become kind of sudden collectibles? Not that I expect you to share that secret if you have one.

 

Bill Curtis: Do you mean new cars or.

 

Robert Ross: Well, no, not necessarily. No, no. Something that might be old. You know, obviously, we're thinking 80s, 90s, maybe even late 70s.

 

Andy Cohen: I think there are a lot of cars, depending on your budget that you can buy that will go up in value. I think one of the biggest ones. Well, one of the ones for the masses is the  9/11, Porsche 911. Because they made a million Porsche 911 over the years. And there are cars you can buy 40, 50 thousand dollars and pick the right one. They're going to go up. If you're talking about something really special. Cobra's a special, 289. And 427 Cobras, they made three hundred 427s and six hundred 289's I think. And Carol Shelby was the Enzo Ferrari of the United States.

 

Robert Ross: He sure was.

 

Andy Cohen: And he was a colorful guy. He made amazing cars and a 289 Cobra now today is eight hundred thousand dollars. They'll all be two million dollars. 427s will run that. They will be three million dollars. If you  still, if you have enough money to do that,there's speculation. But if you don't have that much money, which most people don't, there are cars you can buy. If you want a Ferrari, you buy a 550 Maranello.

 

Robert Ross: That is very interesting car and kind of the last of the Mohicans, the last of the real. You know, almost that analog V12.

 

Andy Cohen: Right. So it's a V12. It's a manual gated transmission,.

 

Robert Ross: Good looking car,.

 

Andy Cohen: Good looking car. It's fast and has air conditioning. Yeah. Handles really well. So a car like that three years ago is $70000.

 

Robert Ross: Now they're up. They are in six figures now. Yeah.

 

Andy Cohen: Now it's 120. 130. Yeah.

 

Robert Ross: The Italian Camaro.

 

Bill Curtis: Is the secret that someone should check to see how many of these things were made to give themselves an idea of whether or not it's going to go up in value.

 

Andy Cohen: Absolutely. That's part of it. So part of it is how many were made from nineteen forty eight to nineteen seventy three. Ferrari's. They only made ten thousand cars total.

 

Robert Ross: That's right.

 

Andy Cohen: And that's five minutes daily production now. I've looked up how many cars are made today.  Hundred and fifty thousand a day or something.

 

Bill Curtis: Is there some way to estimate how many cars might be left. Let's go back to the the GTO that your father missed by six months.

 

Andy Cohen: There are ways because there are all these clubs talking about Pontiac there. They have something called Pontiac Historical Society, where they have all the numbers, all the cars, they keep track of them. Most of these cars, here are somewhere published figures of how many were made. And you're right, Bill, knowing how many were made is is definitely an important thing. Another important thing, was the car popular from new? That helps a lot.

 

Robert Ross: That's right.

 

Andy Cohen: '65 Mustangs.  They made  million of them. It was popular from new. That's still a good car that you could buy relatively affordable and drive and have fun and  it will go up in value.

 

Robert Ross: Absolutely true.  I just sold a '65 Shelby GT 350. They made  562. But what's the real attrition? I was doing some research today. And for instance, you look at the Mercedes Gullwing 300 SL. 1954 to 1957, they made exactly fourteen hundred of those cars. But to your point, Andy, we know that because of the club records and so forth, there are about 12 hundred that exist today. So there is an attrition of 200 cars over the years, back when they were just used cars. I remember those cars selling for six thousand dollars used in the early 70s, for instance.

 

Andy Cohen: We just got one, two weeks ago. I think a Gullwing probably if not the most iconic car, one of the top 10 iconic car designs.

 

Robert Ross: No question about it. You know, speaking of Gullwing, there's just enough critical mass there. You've got a car where they made, you know, fourteen hundred examples. Twelve hundred left. What that means is there's some interest, any point of time, any day of the year. You can find a Gullwing for sale. They're not littering the ground. But what that means is that collectors worldwide actually have the opportunity to not just dream, but if they have the resources they can buy. And I think that makes a market. It makes a market when there is enough of something that it stays on people's radar. When there are only two or three examples in the world, people forget about them. Oh, I'll never get one of those. And by the way, I can't afford the, you know, the price of entry, but the Gullwing or that 300 SL roadster and you know,.

 

Bill Curtis: What are they're going for now, Robert, the Gullwings?

 

Robert Ross: Oh, gosh,  I'll bet Andy's is close to a $2 million car if you want to negotiate.

 

Andy Cohen: Really interesting because you said that with that many made.

 

Robert Ross: But that's a special car. It's one of the first and maybe it's one of the first that's even still extant. And the original owner. What is the value of that provenance? I would say that provenance is worth an extra $250000.

 

Andy Cohen: Or more. Yes, absolutely. So when someone has a car for that long and it's a special car like that, I mean, think about the way a Gullwing looks. And it came out in 1954. Amazing.

 

Bill Curtis: Andy do you  drive it.

 

Andy Cohen: That's an interesting question. Do you drive it? Because there's two schools of thought with collector cars. One is drive the hell out of it and enjoy it. No matter what. And the other is keep it. Don't drive it. What if something happens to it? What if you get an accident? I actually like both those kinds of people. I admire more of the people that drive them. But I still understand the people that don't drive them because they're nervous. They have it in a garage. They worry, someone's going to hit them.

 

Robert Ross: It's their baby.

 

Bill Curtis: What do you think about the guys who bring two of them to Laguna Seca and actually race those cars?

 

Andy Cohen: That's even better. It's just like you said and you said, what is it about these carsD driving it, feeling it, driving around a track, driving on a mountain road? I mean, that's that's the excitement.

 

Robert Ross: It's really like the difference between actually seeing the animal in the wild and seeing it stuffed and mounted in Otis Chandler's collection. I mean, well, it used to be a mountain goat, but now it's just a piece of furniture

 

Andy Cohen: It's true.  The only thing is, with a car that's sitting there. I kind of like that because if you have a car sitting there with no  miles, there's always someone who will pay a crazy amount of money for it.

 

Robert Ross: Absolutely. And let's face it, even when they're not running, they are sculpture.

 

Andy Cohen: They are art. In 2004 a guy that lives in Malibu bought an Enzo from me. I delivered the car to him and his wife was on the deck giving me the dirtiest look ever. So I said, what's with your wife? He said she just can't imagine that I'm spending this much money on this car. But I have paintings on the wall that are worth that much. It's different. It's really a shame because I was on the board of directors of the L.A. County Museum of Art. And he said, Andy, tomorrow we're having a board of directors meeting. And my wife said, I can't show the car because these people will.

 

Bill Curtis: Have no respect.

 

Andy Cohen: Have no respect.

 

Robert Ross: They won't get it.

 

Andy Cohen: Puts a car in the garage and he calls me and he says Andy, you won't believe what happened, and I said what? And he said, so we have these guys. These are high brow art guys there. And someone something said Ferrari. He said, I grabbed the guy. I took him in the garage and he came running out and he said, you guys have to see this car. We're doing an exhibit called Colors and Shapes starting next Monday. We want this car to be there.

 

Robert Ross: Because these cars,

 

Andy Cohen: They are art. They are art

 

Robert Ross: These cars are art.  A huge thanks to Andy Cohen for joining us on Cars that Matter. We'll see you next time to continue talking about the passions that drive us and the passions we drive. This is Robert Ross. This episode of Cars the Matter was hosted by Robert Ross and Bill Curtis, produced by Chris Porter, Sound Engineering by Michael Kennedy. Theme Song by Celeste and Eric Dick, recorded a Curtco's Malibu Podcast Studios. Additional Music and Sound by Chris Porter. Our guest today was Andy Cohen. Please like, subscribe and share this podcast. I'm Robert Ross. Thanks for listening.

 

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